super car money on a 90s Civic

"MonkeePuzzle" (monkeypuzzle) 03/18/2020 at 10:54 • Filed to: None

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Spoon is building this EG Civic in a no expense spared fashion, and the engine is so pretty. Why the nutso headers? Well on a typical B-series Honda engine the header goes under the oilpan and out the back, but to get this engine to sit lower in the bay the header comes up at the front, around the side, and down the back of the engine

with the carbon shell work visible here at the shock towers, which have also been raised to allow more upper control arm travel

and here where you can see the entire floor pan and firewall is carbon.

not a great deal of info in this hyperbolic ally titled video, but they do promise a full review once it is completed and travels to the US. I’d be very interested to know more about the carbon shell, is it just an overlay for strength, or a recreation.

I suspect they are spending more on nuts/bolts than I will be on my own entire EG project.

Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. > MonkeePuzzle 03/18/2020 at 11:13

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What’s the point of putting the exhaust on the front of the engine? Is it to cool it, like on a motorcycle? That always seemed backwards to me, especially with hot exhaust running under the oilpan. 

3point8isgreat > MonkeePuzzle 03/18/2020 at 11:14

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If they’re replacing large sections of the chassis with carbon, is it still an EG civic?  Theseus, we found your Honda.

MonkeePuzzle > Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. 03/18/2020 at 11:18

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I always wondered this, and it was certainly Honda’s SOP for a VERY long time.

The very next gen of engine though, the K-series, was intake a th e front and exhaust out the back.

In fact, their touring car Accord used the exhaust at the front engine, but had a custom redesigned head that reversed it to have exhaust out the rear.

It just makes more sense, have the air flowing in the front and exhausting out the back.

Demon-Xanth knows how to operate a street. > Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. 03/18/2020 at 11:23

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When cars had carburetors sitting on top of log style manifolds, the back of the engine had more height due to the slope of the hood.

It was a carry over of that.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. 03/18/2020 at 11:28

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I n this case Honda probably leaned on their motorcycle experience in designing their car engines. I believe the newer K engines have the exhaust on the back.

The thing is, e xhaust cooling isn’t strictly necessary, and in fact probably not desired - as the exhaust gases cool they slow down and lose velocity, which chokes up the pipes and hurt scavenging out of the cylinder. It’s done on motorcycles because the alternative is the carbs/tbs on the front of the engine and exhaust right under the riders seat.  Seems very uncomfortable.  

In my old Cobalt the intake was on the front and exhaust on the back, but in my Cruze the intake is on the back and exhaust on the front. I think it mostly comes down to packaging constraints and the give and take of designing and efficient intake vs. efficient exhaust.

MonkeePuzzle > Demon-Xanth knows how to operate a street. 03/18/2020 at 11:51

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extremely valid

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Demon-Xanth knows how to operate a street. 03/18/2020 at 11:55

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That’s a really good point!

I just kind of assumed that Honda used that layout because they had a lot more experience with bike engines, so they just kind of stuck with what they knew.  In a motorcycle exhaust in front and sweeping down under makes sense because the alternative is the exhaust right under the riders crotch, which would be uncomfortable to say the least. For a car, with everything underhood it doesn’t really make much difference, and it becomes more about efficient packaging. 

feather-throttle-not-hair > Snuze: Needs another Swede 03/18/2020 at 12:38

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I always remember my Celica having the exhaust in the front. It meant the turbo was front and center, which was kinda cool (though the exhuast side was covered by a heat shield .)

Snuze: Needs another Swede > feather-throttle-not-hair 03/18/2020 at 12:58

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My Cruze has the 1.4 turbo and it’s front exhaust so the turbo is up front as well . It appears the 1.8 n/a Cruze uses the same layout, though.

The Coblat is reversed, exhaust in back and intake in front, but like the Cruze it doesn’t matter if it’s the n/a or turbo variant. 

Pich, with Z32 now featuring Civic [Si] / No > 3point8isgreat 03/18/2020 at 15:53

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I think as long as you keep the overall shape, yes.

bonus: you keep changing parts until you have TWO EG’s lol

Jayvincent > MonkeePuzzle 03/18/2020 at 21:57

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all that space around the headers makes me wonder why no turbo...

Nauraushaun > MonkeePuzzle 03/19/2020 at 02:03

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But...why? Still FWD. Made it a mid-rear car and you’re onto something. This is just very, very expensive lipstick on the pig.

Shift24 > MonkeePuzzle 03/19/2020 at 12:43

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So little insight to this to why the change to the exhaust on the K series. I have some knowledge as my dad has been making the accord since the CB7.

Now this is more so for the accord but what Honda found is that kicking the motor more forward (more straight up and down) and having the intake on the front side would allow the engine to take some of the brunt of the crash and allowing the exhaust and engine to be forced down and out of the way

With the exhaust wrapped on the front on the f22s, in a crash they saw the motor intrude more into the firewall. The exhaust would fold with the motor and shove the intake into that firewall

If you look at an F22 Accord and how its almost rocked back? The intake is about 6in from the firewall. The k24 more up and down and  on the back side the exhaust goes down and out of the way quickly.

Also another benefit is easy of assembly. Exhaust has o2 sensor and 2 or 3 bolts to mount the cat to the header. Intake is right there for line workers and easy to clip on everything, MAP, TBS, Throttle body, Air filter box, and tube.

Yea ok. > Snuze: Needs another Swede 03/19/2020 at 20:53

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I mean I think in this case he/she I s just trying to get the exhaust away from the oil pan not necessarily to cool the exhaust unless I missed something and a turbo is involved . Cooled exhaust might make sense if powering a turbo. W ith the exhaust running under the oil though, on a performance car, I would think the heat from the exhaust would make the oil extra hot? Thin? And I guess due to the configuration this was their solution.